"The big picture question, however, remains one that is more moral than economic. Decades ago, we made promises to government workers. Now, depending on your view, those promises have turned out to be too generous. Or they were based on funny math or absurd predictions of long-term stock market performance. Or they were undermined by the financial crisis, and it’s all the bankers’ fault.
Whatever your view, we now face a choice: Should all taxpayers (including the retired workers themselves) pay a lot more in taxes and accept large cuts in government services to pay for the promises to government employees? Or should we break the promises (by a little — or more than a little) because they have turned out to cost too much?"
There were more than 50 comments. Of course, there some like this one from "Outraged":
"We can no longer pay pensions to public employees, period. We're just diverting way too much money away from infrastructure, schools, etc just to pay grandma and grandpa who since retiring at age 55-60, live for 30 plus years."
But many more were thoughtful, and provide some interesting points we all can make when defending our pensions. Here are some examples:
From RL in New Jersey: "Reneging on those promises is akin to going into an expensive restaurant and ordering a sumptuous meal and then skipping out on the check and saying "I'm not paying for this because I didn't know it would be so expensive." It is theft, plain and simple."
RTurkington in VA: "So apparently, while the contracts for Wall Streeters were set in cement and could not be broken-even though they were ludicrious for men who played a huge role in bringing our economy to its knees; when it comes to men and women who busted their tails doing REAL work for years, believing and trusting that the forgone wage increases during those years, the passing up of perks then so they could better protect their families in later years, THOSE contracts aren't worth the paper they are written on. In otherwords, those who tried to plan ahaead and be RESPONSIBLE are to be penalized while those who sleazed their way to fortunes will continue to be rewarded."
Rob in NY: "New Jersey is a good example of how people running governments broke the pension promise a little ata time. The government refused over many years to pay the money into the pension fund that the professional actuaries said was professionally necessary to fund those pensions, and spent the money on items that they thought their supporters liked, instead. Now, when instead of holding accountable those in government who made those careless decisions, writers and otrhers ask whether the promise is too costly. We have governors who push for cutting pension promises to hard working ordinary men and women while using government helicopters to fly to see their children play sports and are outraged that anyone thinks they are doing something wrong. "
Alan, Huntington, NY: "....The solution to our problems cannot be that we look to the promises made 40 years ago and take the fruits of a lifetime of labor from people who have no way to make it up...."
Shelby, NYC: "I am flaberghasted that our tax dollars flowed into Wall Street companies that then turned around and handed them out as insane bonuses to the very individuals who drove their companies and our economy into the ground. The hue and cry of "But they had contracts! We have to respect contract law!" was inconceivalbe to me as an attorney, because a contract is a mutually binding agreement with benefit to both parties -- those individuals did not perform their end of the bargin, so why would these contracts be respected? Now we have public workers who scrimped by on little pay with the expectation of being comfortable in retirement. These are people who actually served the public good, who took on jobs that helped their communities and the nation. But their contracts aren't to be respected? They held up their end of the bargin, unlike the Wall Streeters who failed to do their jobs. (I don't know about you, but if I bankrupted my company, I would expect a pink slip, not a pay check.) Are we saying that once we have wrung all possible work out of these public servants, we should just throw them aside and reneg on the contracts they have already fulfilled? That's not an America I want to live in."
John, Austin, TX:"....The attitude of "I don't have it so neither should you" needs to revert to "hey, you've got it and so should I".
Workers, both union and non-union have given back the gains of the struggles of a century ago - think Triangle Shirt Waist Company - over the past thirty years based on the false promise (or premise, if you prefer,) that the economic benefits would "trickle down" and "lift all boats". Hasn't happened folks.
Workers continue to give back to save their jobs as the management and investors rake in the spoils...."
Bonnie, Madison, WI: "Let me get this straight. It's OK to spend billions and billions of my tax money on building other nations and wars that have no end. It's OK to use my tax money to bail out corporations that are "too large to fail". It's OK to let Wall Street guys earn million dollar bonuses after their greed nearly destroyed my 403b funds put away for retirement. And now it's OK to rob my pension funds in order to clean up their mess. How can any NY Times reader agree with this approach? One possible reason: it's easier and quicker to steal from retirees who are relatively powerless compared to the guys who got us into this mess. "
Llyn, Wisconsin: "....Our fiscal problems are not the fault of present and future retirees, except for the fact that we believed politicians when they promised that funds "borrowed" would be paid back. The public should never have allowed Congress to begin using Social Security tax dollars as general revenue. Boomers are the largest work force this country has ever seen, and we have been paying into Social Security as well as other retirement funds for our entire working lives. We are now apparently going to be victims of grand theft...."
RS, Seattle, WA: "....reducing benefits to workers who are already retired is ridiculous. They didn't make the rules, they followed them, and changing the rules after the game is over is beyond unfair. I certainly wouldn't want someone to do this to me and I wouldn't do it to anyone else.
Yes, some unions have pressed for, and won, overly generous benefit packages for their members. But at the end of day, it was state legislators, city councils, and governors who approved these deals, and then didn't set aside funds to meet those obligations. Those are the people who need to be held accountable."
smca, NJ: "....In NJ, the cause of public workers' pension problems is the theft of their pension funds by the state government not paying its share over many years. And that was even when the economy was excellent!...."
Horace, Bronx, NY:...." In boom times no one wanted to work in the public sector because pay and benefits weren't attractive....."
Rosa, MN: ".... Its running government like a shady business with cash flow problems. You just stiff the folks who do work for you.."
Oldhistorian69, Greenville, SC: "....By, the way what happens down the line when people on these popular private pension plans find that they have run out of money and don't have enough money for cat food for their supper."
Maloyo, NY: "....A few weeks ago there was a Room for Debate discussion about nudging older workers out of their jobs. So some of you young'ens want to push us out with one hand and take our pensions with the other...."
Northsider, MN: "Divide and conquer. Build resentment in one group of peons against another, slightly more fortunate group of peons, so they fight each other instead of you. Portray all those who recieve benefits from government as undeserving (unless the benefits are tax breaks on corporate jets and hiring foreign labor). Wake up, people. The top 10% of this country's economic elite have the game figured out, and they are playing the tricks the rulers of societies have used to crush the lower classes for centuries. Only now they have control of mass media...."
Here is the link to the NY Times piece:
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